ACDSee Pro 2 and 2.5

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Where have all the data gone?

(15 posts)

  • Philip Weir
    Member

    As part of my workflow I update IPTC fields with Batch Set Information prior to archiving images to DVD. However, on examining the images on the DVD they no longer have IPTC data nor EXIF data. This surely isn't intentional is it?

    Once I've archived the images to DVD I also copy them to an external hard drive and I can see that there the IPTC and EXIF data is retained. My presumtion is that the archiving process itself is doing something to preclude having the metadata embedded within the file. I'm using the burn basket to do the archiving. Does anyone know if I've missed a setting of some sort that I should switch on/off?

    Thanks for any help you can give.

    Philip

    Posted On March 3, 2009 - 04:17 PM (8 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • Philip Weir
    Member

    OK, a bit more exploration has thrown light on this subject. The EXIF data is exactly where I thought it should be although the IPTC data is not. Sorry if I've sent anyone off on a wild goose chase. The IPTC data is missing in .NEF files. Although I run Batch Set Information on these files is would appear that nothing gets embedded - at least into the file itself.

    Philip

    Posted On March 3, 2009 - 08:03 PM (8 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • Marc Sabatella
    Moderator

    Philip Weir said:

    OK, a bit more exploration has thrown light on this subject. The EXIF data is exactly where I thought it should be although the IPTC data is not. Sorry if I've sent anyone off on a wild goose chase. The IPTC data is missing in .NEF files. Although I run Batch Set Information on these files is would appear that nothing gets embedded - at least into the file itself.

    I was about to ask if these were proprietary RAW files.  ACDSee never writes IPTC info to those - it instead writes to sidecar XMP files.  So I'm guessing you managed to either not archive those with the NEF's, or the program you are using to view the NEF's with on the DVD isn't looking at the sidecar XMP files for whatever reason.

    Posted On March 4, 2009 - 04:41 PM (8 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • murech
    Member

    Marc Sabatella said:

    I was about to ask if these were proprietary RAW files.  ACDSee never writes IPTC info to those - it instead writes to sidecar XMP files.

    And I think no other software writes IPTC data to NEF (or other RAW) files. At least Lightroom doesn't, I tried it a while ago. However, both will embed IPTC data when generating a JPG. But I can't say the same for Maker Notes (at least Nikon Maker Notes), ACDSee looses (doesn't wite) them when generating JPG while Lightroom preserves them.

    Miguel

    Posted On March 4, 2009 - 04:56 PM (8 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • murech
    Member

    Marc Sabatella said:

     So I'm guessing you managed to either not archive those with the NEF's, or the program you are using to view the NEF's with on the DVD isn't looking at the sidecar XMP files for whatever reason.

    It looks like ACDSee doesn't burn the XMP files. I was going to try and this is the warning I got:

    Attached Image:

    I wonder why.

    Miguel

    Attached Files

    1. Burn_basket.jpg
    Posted On March 4, 2009 - 06:12 PM (8 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • Philip Weir
    Member

    Miguel,

    You've hit on exactly the problem I'm having. Thanks for taking the time to have a look at it.

    When I archive to DVD I also have ACDSee create a catalog on the DVD so, I guess, I'm not missing the data and can use the DVD to recover the image as well as the metadata if the worst happens. I'll just have to recreate the IPTC data after the recovery.

    Posted On March 4, 2009 - 06:37 PM (8 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • Marc Sabatella
    Moderator

    murech said:

    It looks like ACDSee doesn't burn the XMP files. I was going to try and this is the warning I got

    Interesting!  I assume you tried selecting some image files then hitting "Create CD or DVD"?  I usually select folders, not individual files, and I never get that warning.  I have been assuming all along that I was indeed backing up my XMP files, but you put a scare into me.  I just checked, though, and it does seem to have copied the XMP files too.  Only if you select image files does it not copy XMP files.  And actually, if you turn on the option to display XMP files, then you can select and include the XMP files too.

    Posted On March 4, 2009 - 08:14 PM (8 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • murech
    Member

    Marc Sabatella said:

    Interesting!  I assume you tried selecting some image files then hitting "Create CD or DVD"?

    No, I just added a NEF image to Burn Basket with Edit/Add to Burn Basket. But as I have just verified, I get the same warning if I select Create/Create CD or DVD.

    Miguel

    Posted On March 5, 2009 - 12:40 AM (8 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • Marc Sabatella
    Moderator

    murech said:

    No, I just added a NEF image to Burn Basket with Edit/Add to Burn Basket. But as I have just verified, I get the same warning if I select Create/Create CD or DVD.

    Not surprising - the important differentiator here is that you are selecting *images* where I always select *folders*.  Selecting a *folder* will always include the sidecar XMP files necessary to preserve metadata for proprietary RAW files.  If you want to select individual images to burn, you'd have to set the option to display XMP files and be sure to select them too.  Or perhaps copy them to a temp folder and then burn that.

    Posted On March 6, 2009 - 05:03 PM (8 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • murech
    Member

    Marc Sabatella said:

    murech said:

    No, I just added a NEF image to Burn Basket with Edit/Add to Burn Basket. But as I have just verified, I get the same warning if I select Create/Create CD or DVD.

    Not surprising - the important differentiator here is that you are selecting *images* where I always select *folders*.  Selecting a *folder* will always include the sidecar XMP files necessary to preserve metadata for proprietary RAW files.  If you want to select individual images to burn, you'd have to set the option to display XMP files and be sure to select them too.  Or perhaps copy them to a temp folder and then burn that.

    Well, to me it is a bit surprising and inconsistent with other similar operations. When you move or copy a RAW file to another folder, or just delete it, the corresponding XMP file is also moved, copied or deleted.

    Posted On March 7, 2009 - 10:52 AM (8 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • Sam Dring
    Moderator

    murech said:

    Marc Sabatella said:

    murech said:

    No, I just added a NEF image to Burn Basket with Edit/Add to Burn Basket. But as I have just verified, I get the same warning if I select Create/Create CD or DVD.

    Not surprising - the important differentiator here is that you are selecting *images* where I always select *folders*.  Selecting a *folder* will always include the sidecar XMP files necessary to preserve metadata for proprietary RAW files.  If you want to select individual images to burn, you'd have to set the option to display XMP files and be sure to select them too.  Or perhaps copy them to a temp folder and then burn that.

    Well, to me it is a bit surprising and inconsistent with other similar operations. When you move or copy a RAW file to another folder, or just delete it, the corresponding XMP file is also moved, copied or deleted.

    Miguel

    Agreed - cannot see why the deliberate decision  was made (hence the warning) to exclude metadata (xmp).  Same thing with the image basket also but no warning!

    Posted On March 7, 2009 - 04:11 PM (8 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • Marc Sabatella
    Moderator

    murech said:

    Well, to me it is a bit surprising and inconsistent with other similar operations. When you move or copy a RAW file to another folder, or just delete it, the corresponding XMP file is also moved, copied or deleted.

    Oh, I agree.  When I said it was not surprising, I meant, not surprising in light of my previous comments.  That is, *given* that we now know that selecting images and hitting Create CD or DVD doesn't work, it doesn't surprise me that selecting images then dragging them to the burn basket doesn't work, either.

    Posted On March 9, 2009 - 05:03 PM (8 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • Philip Weir
    Member

    OK, then do we consider this behaviour a bug? Or is it a new feature? Personally I think its a bug (after all surely the metadata should follow the file either by being embedded in the file - preferable - or by being inextricably linked to it). If a bug I'll raise a support ticket. If a feature request I'll send it to mailto:ideas@acdsee.com.

    Philip

    Posted On March 11, 2009 - 07:16 PM (8 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • murech
    Member

    Philip Weir said:

    OK, then do we consider this behaviour a bug? Or is it a new feature? Personally I think its a bug (after all surely the metadata should follow the file either by being embedded in the file - preferable - or by being inextricably linked to it). If a bug I'll raise a support ticket. If a feature request I'll send it to mailto:ideas@acdsee.com.

    Philip

    Hello Philip,

    I defined the behaviour as an inconsistency and, to me, that is closer to being a bug than to a new feature. So yes, I also think it is a bug.

    Miguel

    Posted On March 12, 2009 - 12:21 PM (8 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • Marc Sabatella
    Moderator

    I'd call it a bug too.

    Posted On March 12, 2009 - 04:31 PM (8 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

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