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After I edit an item and I do not want to replace what I am editing, I do a 'save as' function. OK, the next part is strange behavior and I've never seen it before. When I go to move to the next picture, up pops a window wanting to know if I want to Save, Save As, Discard, or Cancel. It doesn't make itself clear as to which image it is asking this question for. I generally have to think about it because I just saved it under another name. Now, after overwriting photos I did not want to change, I finally figured out that it wants to know what to do with the original picture that I edit as opposed to the edited picture. That's not a good thing if you are in a hurry and don't want to have to 'think' before picture editing.
ACDSee Pro 3 Beta - Bugs
Save As vs Save
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(19 posts)
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Picture Man Photography
MemberPosted On June 1, 2009 - 09:38 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post) -
John Radcliffe
MemberAs I see it, the point is that clicking [Save] then choosing "Save As" allows the user to save intermediate results, and then go on editing - which something I've been wanting to be able to do for some time, so I really like this new procedure.
Now you might say that Pro3 should know that you've not done any more editing since you Saved As, so why ask you again about saving, but I suppose it's just possible that you might want to save the image twice - not likely with Edit, perhaps, but a real possiblity with images processed in Develop sub-mode, so it's probably easiest (and perhaps best, to avoid confusion) to have the same set up in both "Process" sub-modes.
So my advice would be that if you just want Save As and move to the next image, don't use the [Save] button, just click the [>] button next to [Done] and choose the Save As option there, and think of the [Save] button as simply for saving intermediate versions.
Posted On June 2, 2009 - 12:47 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post) -
Marc Sabatella
ModeratorAfter I edit an item and I do not want to replace what I am editing, I do a 'save as' function. OK, the next part is strange behavior and I've never seen it before. When I go to move to the next picture, up pops a window wanting to know if I want to Save, Save As, Discard, or Cancel.
It seems the model here is that "Save As" is actually doing what some applications call "Save A Copy". That is, it saves the images under a different name, but looking at the title bar, it appears the current image is still the unsaved original. Seems to me both options should be available, and they should behave in the "normal" ways - "save as" makes the newly saved version the current version, "save a copy" does not.
Now, after overwriting photos I did not want to change, I finally figured out that it wants to know what to do with the original picture that I edit as opposed to the edited picture. That's not a good thing if you are in a hurry and don't want to have to 'think' before picture editing.
Note that while images may be overwritten, the original is always (unless you've turned the feature off for some reason) saved away, so you really haven't lost anything. For most people, Save As would be an exceedingly rare thing to need to do with 3.0. Of course, it still makes sense if you are trying out multiple options for a given image, and it also make sense that you probably wouldn't want to overwrite your original. Although if you are using Process mode, I wouldn't even assume that - since you can always revert to the original either in whole or just one editing tool group at a time the next time you visit the file in order to try a different set of edits.
But I'm just guessing about what you are atually trying to accomplish here. A better description of that would probably help the folks at ACD understand what improvements could help.
Posted On June 4, 2009 - 05:34 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post) -
Picture Man Photography
MemberI can see the need for the 3.0 interprets what a person is doing and I like that, sort of. I tried several times to simply use the > control so that I could do the save as function. Oddly, 3.0 simply saved my editing under the original photo. I thought, maybe, that I had set something in the Preferences that governs 3.0 behavior. I didn't find a setting, which is why I began doing the Save As function before moving on to the next image.
Posted On June 4, 2009 - 06:04 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post) -
Marc Sabatella
ModeratorI can see the need for the 3.0 interprets what a person is doing and I like that, sort of. I tried several times to simply use the > control so that I could do the save as function. Oddly, 3.0 simply saved my editing under the original photo.
That would be normal for Develop mode, which indeed is intended for non-destructive edits in place, so the ">" button does exactly that. In Edit mode, it should definitely prompt (and does, for me).
It still isn't completely clear why you'd need to have Develop mode *not* overwrite the original, given that it is all completely non-destructive. As it is, I guess the best thing to do would be "save as" followed by "revert" followed by the arrow key.
Posted On June 4, 2009 - 06:49 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post) -
Picture Man Photography
MemberI'm not use to the 'Non-Destructive' aspects. Partially, because I never work on the originals anyway. And, sometimes I will work on multiples of the copies to see what kind of effects I can generate. If I could, I would like to be able to turn off the 'Non-Destructive' aspects.
Posted On June 4, 2009 - 07:11 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post) -
Marc Sabatella
ModeratorThe way to turn off non-destructive aspects is to simply not use Develop mode.
But to be honest, I think you'll be making things *MUCH* harder for yourself. The whole point of 3.0 is to provide this non-destructive mdoe that maks it unnecessary to perform the sorts of handstands (eg, making copies of files, doing save as) one needed in the past. Much of what you observed about issues with 3.0 has involved attempting to do end-runs around the improvement its offers. You clearly have a pretty firm grasp of lots of the relevant concepts here; I really enocurage you to spend some time exploring non-destructive editing. I think you'll be shocked at how much work it can save you!
Posted On June 4, 2009 - 07:25 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post) -
arbib
MemberNot sure if this helps...
But I only use "Save-As" and have a seperate Directory for any edited files..
Now, what I saw in the management window, the original file had been moved to a hidden directory that ACDsee 3 made under the main directory of the folder I was working in. I was suspect, when the original was no longer in the main folder of all the un-edited images. I looked on my hard drive and low and behold there were 2 hidden directorys made: "Developed" and "Original". SO, the orginal was not overwritten, just moved, and replaced with the edited file. PLUS a "Blue D" shows up..(thanks for adding that). Which is a nice feature so you don't edit the same image twice (no more writing down the file numbers of edited images -- YEAH --)...PLUS the option of a TRUE/FALSE under the image to let you know which images have been edited.
BTW this happens with JPGs...Not Raw...I use DNG for my RAW Files. BUT, with RAW, you can always "reset" or change any setting. Even though the original is overwritten (developed), The Orginal unedited version seems to be kept, because a preview is availible to compare the Original with any changes made even after it has been developed. and "saved as" used also to make a JPG/TIF conversion. So you can revert to the Pure RAW file I would guess by "resetting" all the changes that was made, and saving it.
Posted On June 8, 2009 - 12:03 AM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post) -
Marc Sabatella
ModeratorBTW this happens with JPGs...Not Raw...I use DNG for my RAW Files. BUT, with RAW, you can always "reset" or change any setting. Even though the original is overwritten (developed), The Orginal unedited version seems to be kept, because a preview is availible to compare the Original with any changes made even after it has been developed. and "saved as" used also to make a JPG/TIF conversion. So you can revert to the Pure RAW file I would guess by "resetting" all the changes that was made, and saving it.
All of this is *also* true for JPEG with 3.0 - that's the whole point of combining JPEG and RAW into one new "Develop" mode. There is no long any real functional difference between the two (although the implementation details of how it works may differ). Whether you shoot RAW or JPEG, you never need to do "Save As". Simply hit "Done", or move on to the next image without leaving Develop mode, and your changes are saved, but so is the original, in such a way that at any time you can completely revert to the origianl version, or just back out certain change (eg, keep exposure the same, but go back to the original color, etc).
Posted On June 8, 2009 - 02:35 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post) -
arbib
MemberAll of this is *also* true for JPEG with 3.0 - that's the whole point of combining JPEG and RAW into one new "Develop" mode. There is no long any real functional difference between the two (although the implementation details of how it works may differ). Whether you shoot RAW or JPEG, you never need to do "Save As". Simply hit "Done", or move on to the next image without leaving Develop mode, and your changes are saved, but so is the original, in such a way that at any time you can completely revert to the origianl version, or just back out certain change (eg, keep exposure the same, but go back to the original color, etc).
yes, that's a good system for printing and other non web related needs for the processed image. But I don't print that much anymore...so saving a JPG with the processing embedded in the image for Web Upload, is more useful for me. So the "Save-As" function is a welcome function. But I like that the processed JPG acts like a RAW file, since the Original untouched file is moved to the "Original" folder with the same named XMP file that contains the processing info. (As a RAW File), So I can always adjust or tweek later on down the line, if neededd.
Posted On June 8, 2009 - 07:07 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post) -
Picture Man Photography
MemberThe way to turn off non-destructive aspects is to simply not use Develop mode.
But to be honest, I think you'll be making things *MUCH* harder for yourself. The whole point of 3.0 is to provide this non-destructive mdoe that maks it unnecessary to perform the sorts of handstands (eg, making copies of files, doing save as) one needed in the past. Much of what you observed about issues with 3.0 has involved attempting to do end-runs around the improvement its offers. You clearly have a pretty firm grasp of lots of the relevant concepts here; I really enocurage you to spend some time exploring non-destructive editing. I think you'll be shocked at how much work it can save you!
Still don't like the non-destructive mode. Even when I don't do end runs. Too many times I've lost the original because I said 'Done' instead of click on one of the arrows to do a Save As, then moving on to the next image. When you do that, the non-destruct mode clears itself and then preps for the next image.
I'm from the old school which is to always make a copy of the original and never actually work on the original. Plus, I like to have several different aspects of the edited file and the non-Destruct mode doesn't always allow me to do that. When that happens, then going back to the saved original (the one that Pro 3 does) is the only recourse, assuming you haven't saved-saved multiple times.
Posted On June 20, 2009 - 06:22 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post) -
Marc Sabatella
ModeratorStill don't like the non-destructive mode. Even when I don't do end runs. Too many times I've lost the original because I said 'Done' instead of click on one of the arrows to do a Save As, then moving on to the next image. When you do that, the non-destruct mode clears itself and then preps for the next image.
I'm confused as to what you mean by having "lost" the original. The whole point of non-destructive editing is that it is supposed to be *impossible* to lose the original. At any time you can revert to the original version from Manage mode, or simply revisit the file in Develop mode and find all your sliders exactly where you left them, allowing you to continue right where you left off, selectively revert individual settings, or start all over if you like.
I'm from the old school which is to always make a copy of the original and never actually work on the original. Plus, I like to have several different aspects of the edited file and the non-Destruct mode doesn't always allow me to do that.
Understood. Develop mode certainly *allows* you to have multiple copies of an image, but it isn't optimized to that type of workflow. It's more set up on the assumption you'll be normally working on one "best" version.
Posted On June 20, 2009 - 07:02 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post) -
Picture Man Photography
MemberI'm confused as to what you mean by having "lost" the original.
I thought I explained the reasoning behind that statement.
- Too many times I've lost the original because I said 'Done' instead of click on one of the arrows to do a Save As, then moving on to the next image.
- When you do that, the non-destruct mode clears itself and then preps for the next image.
Posted On June 20, 2009 - 08:41 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post) -
Marc Sabatella
ModeratorThat *is* what you said, but I don't know what you mean when you say that it "clears itself". Hitting "Done" takes you back to Manage bode. But if you return to the image in Develop mode, do you not find all your sliders right where you left them? And does Revert to Original not still work correctly to restore the original version (whether invoked from Manage mode or from Develop mode)? It certainly *should*, and does for me - that's the whole point of non-destructive editing.
Posted On June 21, 2009 - 01:30 AM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post) -
Picture Man Photography
MemberIs the mother hen doing secret updates to the main beta code? The reason I ask is because I no longer can replicate what I was discussing in this thread. And, I'm seeing it in other issues as well. Strange because much of what I was having difficult with are no longer issues.
Posted On July 6, 2009 - 02:00 AM (4 months ago) (Permalink to this post) -
Melanie Wood
Community Managerno, Rob, we're not doing secret updates... there's now way to do secret updates.
Posted On July 7, 2009 - 06:07 PM (4 months ago) (Permalink to this post) -
Picture Man Photography
Memberno, Rob, we're not doing secret updates... there's now way to do secret updates.
Nevertheless, strange things are happening. For instance - there was a time that if I was editing (Process mode) and I pressed the Done key, the edited file would over-write the original file. That changed last week so present to me the options bar to either Save, Save As, etc. The action of pressing the right or left arrow did not change the the presentation of the Options Bar. Now, what changed? I didn't change any of the settings.
Posted On July 8, 2009 - 01:09 AM (4 months ago) (Permalink to this post) -
Marc Sabatella
ModeratorNevertheless, strange things are happening. For instance - there was a time that if I was editing (Process mode) and I pressed the Done key, the edited file would over-write the original file. That changed last week so present to me the options bar to either Save, Save As, etc. The action of pressing the right or left arrow did not change the the presentation of the Options Bar. Now, what changed? I didn't change any of the settings.
Sounds to me like you are describing the difference between Develop and Edit modes.
Posted On July 8, 2009 - 05:20 PM (4 months ago) (Permalink to this post) -
Picture Man Photography
MemberHaven't a clue at this point because everything works the way I want it to work. And, what's interesting, when I reloaded from scratch do some anomaly in Norton, B3R1 continues to function correctly. A few new nuances but not in this specific issue. Which, by the way, is no longer an issue. Thus, I'm clueless. Maybe it's because I'm learning the features and the workflow is being done in the way the programmers assumed it would be done.
Posted On August 12, 2009 - 01:42 AM (3 months ago) (Permalink to this post)
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