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Quick View > Edit with... (external editor)

(33 posts)

Started by thibaud
Started on May 29, 2009 - 06:32 AM (5 months ago)
Latest reply from Chippy (5 months ago)

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thibaud
Member

I would really like to be able to edit in photoshop directly from quick view.
I believe this is seriously impeding the workflow of *any external editor* user.
Quick view has become useless for me since the "edit with.." command was removed from it.
Is there any reason why :
. We can't have "edit with external editor" command back into quick view ?
. "Set as Wallpaper" is considered more useful than "edit with..." ?
. The default "edit with.." shortcut from the viewer was changed to ctrl+shift+x ?

Thanks.

Posted On May 29, 2009 - 06:32 AM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)
QuBe
Focus Group

I'm with you there...asked for this last year for Quick View in 2.5. As far as I can tell, it's just a case of adding a line of linking code. I know they want us to stay within the ACDSee editing ecosystem, but until ACDSee can do everything that Photoshop, Aperture etc and the galaxy of plug-ins out there, that is not a realistic expectation. Those of us that use it primarily as a top notch viewer/manager (better than Bridge etc), need proper external editor support.

(I also want the Quick View RAW viewing capability that's in Photo Manager 2009 - I think they might be working on that.)

:)

QuBe.

Posted On May 29, 2009 - 05:49 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)
jmollenauer
Focus Group

I agree. Going out to Photoshop or other external editor is a clumsy process that shoud be improved.

For me, restoring support of Photoshop plugins would do as well. I don't like Photoshop and use it only because it supports what have become industry-standard plugins. It not only supports third-party plugins, it runs them in batch mode, which is ideal when there are lots of photos to process.

Jim

Posted On May 29, 2009 - 07:46 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)
alibaba
Member

You have my vote for it as well,
beside, I don't think a feature comparison between *any* editors and/or acdsee pro is relevant at all here.
The fact is, most creative professional user use an external editor in their daily workflow.
and acdsee is pretty much always mainly used as a quick viewer / manager in their workflow !
unfortunately quickview without that shortcut is indeed just plain useless for them.

Posted On May 30, 2009 - 11:13 AM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)
thibaud
Member

Hello,
Is this the right place to get some feedback from acdsee team ?

Posted On June 2, 2009 - 10:51 AM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)
Marc Sabatella
Moderator

This is the place they look to for feedback from users. And they do respond from time to time. But no, I wouldn't expect answers from ACD on every question asked here, especially not general "why was this feature not implemented" types of questions (I can guess the answer already: because they didn't it was important enough compared to the other features they did implement).

My own feedback is: why are you using Quick view at all if you are using an external editor? Seems to me the main strength of ACDSee, if you are not using the very powerful cataloging or editing facilities, would be as a browser. But then, if you are using acdsee as a browser, you wouldn't need quick view - that's useful mainly if you *aren't* using acdsee as you browser but are using something more limited like windows explorer instead. I'm not saing it's wrong, of course, just that I have trouble understanding it. And while I can't speak for the folks at ACD, I'd imagine that any explanation you could give that helped me understand would probably also help them understand. And then maybe they'd find the features you mention more important to work on.

Posted On June 4, 2009 - 05:40 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)
thibaud
Member

I'm not sure I understand you reasoning here.
I think you probably overlooked the major reason why anyone would use ACDSee Quick view rather than the viewer or use windows explorer rather than ACDSee browser.
The reason being : it is, well ... Quick (instant) - too launch.

Acdsee as always been regarded as a pretty fast image viewer until at some point the viewer became so bloated with editing features that it's loading time was getting quite unreasonable for anyone just willing to view an image from windows explorer. Quick view then came to the rescue which initially had the "edit with.." feature.
This feature has since been removed from Quick view, making a simple workflow like:
windows explorer(double click file) > Quick view image ... navigate(scrollWheel) > external editor not as efficient and fast as it should be.

Posted On June 4, 2009 - 09:14 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)
QuBe
Focus Group

thibaud said:

I'm not sure I understand you reasoning here.
I think you probably overlooked the major reason why anyone would use ACDSee Quick view rather than the viewer or use windows explorer rather than ACDSee browser.
The reason being : it is, well ... Quick (instant) - too launch.

Acdsee as always been regarded as a pretty fast image viewer until at some point the viewer became so bloated with editing features that it's loading time was getting quite unreasonable for anyone just willing to view an image from windows explorer. Quick view then came to the rescue which initially had the "edit with.." feature.
This feature has since been removed from Quick view, making a simple workflow like:
windows explorer(double click file) > Quick view image ... navigate(scrollWheel) > external editor not as efficient and fast as it should be.

BINGO!! :-)

Even when ACDSee is resident in memory, it's still not as fast to load as Quick View.

Quick view is very handy for taking a rapid glimpse at an image file(s), going through folders and whatnot. ACDSee devs know this, and that's why there is a Quick View.

I'd use it all the time if it had an external editor button (and could view RAWs like QV in PM '09). As it is, I have it disabled and use ACDSee 5 as Quick view since it has the external editor button and loads as fast Quick View. A bit kludgy setup, but gets things done fast. :-)

QuBe.

Posted On June 5, 2009 - 12:03 AM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)
thibaud
Member

QuBe said:

I'd use it all the time if it had an external editor button (and could view RAWs like QV in PM '09). As it is, I have it disabled and use ACDSee 5 as Quick view since it has the external editor button and loads as fast Quick View. A bit kludgy setup, but gets things done fast. :-)

QuBe.

For anyone not having difficulties to understand why fast viewing can be useful ;)
or for anyone not willing to hold their breath for ACDsee pro Quick view to start behaving like a "pro".
here is a viewer designed with that precise concept in mind.
64bit, gpu accelerated, multithreaded, etc.. ( Sounds like the way a viewer should be done nowadays.)
forum with direct support from the developer himself... ( Sounds like the way a support forum should be run)

Posted On June 5, 2009 - 12:58 AM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)
QuBe
Focus Group

thibaud said:

For anyone not having difficulties to understand why fast viewing can be useful ;)
or for anyone not willing to hold their breath for ACDsee pro Quick view to start behaving like a "pro".
here is a viewer designed with that precise concept in mind.
64bit, gpu accelerated, multithreaded, etc.. ( Sounds like the way a viewer should be done nowadays.)
forum with direct support from the developer himself... ( Sounds like the way a support forum should be run)

Neato! At least for jpgs in their basic version.

But FPV also doesn't have a button on the toolbar for an external editor...and that editor dialog box on screen all the time is a total fail...to me anyways. All round it's pretty good...fast as 5 or QV and much nicer than Irfanview.

~~~~~~~~~~~

[Loosely related UPDATE]

Geez Louise!

One of my complaints about 2.5's Quick View was the white background...can't stand it.

Well, while comparing FPV to Quick View, I went checking through the QV options...and there it's been all this time, the option to set the bg any color you want. What the...? (And....the option to turn off the top and bottom toolbars.)

How did I miss these before??!! Why didn't anyone tell me?! So mad I could spit! >:(

LOL! :D

Oh well. Just an external editor key command and RAW support away from being totally there. :)

QuBe.

Posted On June 5, 2009 - 05:02 AM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)
Marc Sabatella
Moderator

thibaud said:

Acdsee as always been regarded as a pretty fast image viewer until at some point the viewer became so bloated with editing features that it's loading time was getting quite unreasonable for anyone just willing to view an image from windows explorer.

Yes, but that's only true if you still think of Explorer as your default browser and only kick off ACDSee occasionally. My point is, why not simply have ACDSee as your browser, and hence *always* be open? I guess I'm surprised people would value ACDSee Pro enough to spend the money on it but not use its basic browsing features.

Anyhow, I'm not trying to say anyone else's methods are wrong - just trying to get a better idea of what people are actually tying to do. Like I said, not that it matters what I think, but I would imagine the folks at ACD might benefit from such explanations as well.

Posted On June 5, 2009 - 05:34 AM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)
QuBe
Focus Group

Marc Sabatella said:

Yes, but that's only true if you still think of Explorer as your default browser and only kick off ACDSee occasionally. My point is, why not simply have ACDSee as your browser, and hence *always* be open? I guess I'm surprised people would value ACDSee Pro enough to spend the moeny on it but not use its basic browsing features.

Good point.

But some of us have been scarred by having started in computing when multi-tasking was just a new method of seeing how flaky an app could become by leaving it running in the background. It's also an engrained workflow (aka hard habit to shake) to close down apps to free up maximim resources for hungry apps like DAWs, video editors or even Photoshop when you're working on big tifs.

A new 64bit machine is on the short list...oh, to never have to worry about ram limits or pagefiles ever again. :D

QuBe

Posted On June 5, 2009 - 06:27 AM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)
thibaud
Member

Marc Sabatella said:

Yes, but that's only true if you still think of Explorer as your default browser and only kick off ACDSee occasionally. My point is, why not simply have ACDSee as your browser, and hence *always* be open? I guess I'm surprised people would value ACDSee Pro enough to spend the moeny on it but not use its basic browsing features.

People spending their money on ACDsee will sure value it's browser capabilities and certainly use it like I do, but I still don't see how it is related to the Quick View lacking feature issue.

Are you serious when saying that ACDSee browser could plain replace windows explorer ?
Are you saying Quick view has no reason to exist and is just plain useless ?

Windows user will use windows explorer a way or another.

And being able to quickly decode and view any image file directly from windows explorer is certainly an essential feature of any image viewer whether it offers management capabilities or not.
(Picasa viewer is another good example, and it's fast viewer also does offer an "edit with..." feature).
Don't you find it a shame to hear stories of Acdsee Pro users resorting to convoluted way to replace the Quick Viewer that lacks an important feature.

Note: even if I do have ACDsee browser constantly opened, lauching a file from windows explorer still opens another instance of ACDSee if the first instance of ACDSee was not in view mode.

Posted On June 5, 2009 - 12:24 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)
Michael Presley
Member

Marc Sabatella said:

Yes, but that's only true if you still think of Explorer as your default browser and only kick off ACDSee occasionally. My point is, why not simply have ACDSee as your browser, and hence *always* be open? I guess I'm surprised people would value ACDSee Pro enough to spend the moeny on it but not use its basic browsing features.

Even though I spend a lot of time inside photo management software I probably spend even more time in a file manager (not Windows Explorer - but a more capable version of the same type of software). As such I too often rely on the quickview feature for taking a look around a folder of pictures. This is most often the case when I'm doing my 'real' job and not working as a photographer (real being determined by what pays the bills). I use a lot things like screen shots and such things that the quickview program really works well. There's a lot of things I like about ACDSee but general file management isn't one of them. I'd be pretty happy if I could hit a hot key to go directly into the process/edit module or even better if that hot key was configurable.

Posted On June 5, 2009 - 03:20 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)
Melanie Wood
Community Manager

thibaud said:

forum with direct support from the developer himself... ( Sounds like the way a support forum should be run)

Hi thibaud,

Just to let you know, the ACDSee Community is a peer to peer community, not a support forum. In the Beta forums, we have Product Managers reviewing all feature requests and QA monitoring all bug submissions but most of the conversation is between members, the Focus Group and the Moderators [and me ;-)]. Technical and customer support questions need to be submitted through the ticketing system (the Support pulldown at the top of the page).

-Melanie

Posted On June 5, 2009 - 08:13 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)
Marc Sabatella
Moderator

thibaud said:

Are you serious when saying that ACDSee browser could plain replace windows explorer ?
Are you saying Quick view has no reason to exist and is just plain useless ?

I'm not saying anything of the sort. I'm saying I personally don't understand this, so explanation from others who use Explorer & Quickview in this way might help.

But since you asked, indeed, I don't think I've ever once in the years I've used ACDSee pointed Explorer at the folders containing my images. I'm absolutely serious about that - ACDSee is the only program that ever browses those folders. Sometimes I've been working in another application and wanted to open an image and for whatever drag & drop didn't work so I needed to use File->Open in the other application, and hence have browsed my image folders via the Windows File->Open dialog. But that's not relevant to this discussion Quickview - it's all about getting images intot he other application, not viewing them with ACDSee.

Again, I'm not saying my workflow is the only way to do things or that someone who worked differently wouldn't want to point Explorer at their images or have them come up in Quickview. I'm just saying that it's totally outide of my own experience. And as a former software developer, I know it's dangerous to base feature decisions on one's own experience and workflow only - software designers always want to better understand how other users are actually wanting to use their products, so they can make decisions that take other people's needs into account. Hence my suggestion that you help the folks at ACD out by explaining how you are using Quickview.

Don't you find it a shame to hear stories of Acdsee Pro users resorting to convoluted way to replace the Quick Viewer that lacks an important feature.

Once more, don't get me wrong - I'm not defending any particular behavior here. I'm just trying to encourage people who value some requested feature to provide more background as to why that feature is important to their workflow, at least in cases - like this - where the answer seems somewhat non-obvious to people accustomed to what is apparently an extremely different workflow.

Posted On June 8, 2009 - 04:45 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)
QuBe
Focus Group

Marc Sabatella said:

Don't you find it a shame to hear stories of Acdsee Pro users resorting to convoluted way to replace the Quick Viewer that lacks an important feature.

Once more, don't get me wrong - I'm not defending any particular behavior here. I'm just trying to encourage people who value some requested feature to provide more background as to why that feature is important to their workflow, at least in cases - like this - where the answer seems somewhat non-obvious to people accustomed to what is apparently an extremely different workflow.

I guess the main differences is that, for me, images reside all over the place. There's my main (personal) photography that's in it's own folder system on a dedicated partition. Then there's everything else....

Artwork phtotography resides in individual client directories, with subdirectories for individual projects or unique project types. e.g. I just finished a 'graphics' project consisting of a 35 page book done in Quark for an artist's show opening - containing about 30 hi-res tifs of paintings, an eps or two and a few jpps.

Then there's web design projects that similarly get their own client directories, with lots of different 'working' image subdirectories.

There's also images I download, either to desktop or specific download locations, and misc images I get in e-mails and whatnot.

So, since a large percentage of my images are tied to individual projects, I'll always need a method to quickly look at various images when I'm in Explorer going through the various other non-image files. If my focus was exclisively photography, then I would likely use Explorer less, and live more in ACDSee.

QuBe.

Posted On June 8, 2009 - 09:50 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)
NZ-Waverider
Focus Group

I agree, please bring back CTRL+E for default editor, if I want my image to open in ACDSee editor I woud configure it this way!!

On another note, I use ACDseePro2 at work every day and would use it as my main explorer, because of the ease of batch file format, batch resizing, moving and copying with a simple shortcut command.

But I have to also use exploerer and bridge for the following reasons.

ACDSee does grinds to a halt when you have a folder with large tiffs (400mb-700mb ea) (and i do have a fast PC, WinXP64/6gbRAM/Dual XeonCPU)

ACDSee does not preview PDF files.

Posted On June 13, 2009 - 09:03 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)
thibaud
Member

Marc Sabatella said:

I'm not saying anything of the sort. I'm saying I personally don't understand this, so explanation from others who use Explorer & Quickview in this way might help.

But since you asked, indeed, I don't think I've ever once in the years I've used ACDSee pointed Explorer at the folders containing my images.

If after all these years you have never :
. Come across a folder containing mixed type formats (+images) in windows explorer.
. Had a couple pictures on your desktop.
. Managed documents relying on external image data.
. Used some windows explorer shell extension in your daily workflow.
and are having difficulties to understand how someone having ACDSee would want to quickly view an image from windows explorer (or some other viable replacement).

Then pardon me, but it's a pretty good thing that you abandoned software development !
I'm sorry but If you can't understand how essential this feature can be for a large number of ACDSee users, I guess you never will.

Posted On June 14, 2009 - 03:04 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)
CamCarmichael
ACDSee Product Manager

Great thread - interesting topic - and a decent suggestion comes from it - but as I read:

Then pardon me, but it's a pretty good thing that you abandoned software development !
I'm sorry but If you can't understand how essential this feature can be for a large number of ACDSee users, I guess you never will.

I gotta chime in.

I think this comment is inappropriately personal and has a tone which I don't think is what we're looking for in our Focus Group. Marc has - in each of his posts - gone out of his way to point out that while he doesn't see the need for QV - he respects that it might be important to some workflows and simply seems to be asking for details. I would ask that you respond to his exploration with similar respect (which the quoted post here clearly does not).

For my take on this issue - I echo Marc's sentiment and add that if people are looking for a quick viewer that launches into a separate editor - they likely don't have much need for ACDSee at all. I grant you that someone who already has ACDSee might sometimes want to QV a file and launch into some other app - so this idea has some merrit and I'll discuss this idea with Development and see where it goes. QV is a funny place to try to make changes because in order to keep it really small and fast we've not used any big libraries in the coding of it - so even small changes require custom coding to implement.

Thx again for the debate and the feature suggestion.

Cam

Posted On June 15, 2009 - 05:55 AM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)