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Processing / develop / Tune

(12 posts)

  • wotan_odyn
    Moderator

    Ambivalent. Confused.

    I don't really get the point of having color settings scattered across the tabs. I just don't get some concepts. Like Vibrance vs. Saturation. Or Strenght in the White Balance tab (what does it do?).

    Advanced colors: great idea, very counterintuitive implementation.

    For example in Saturation:

    - I don't know what the middle line in the middle of rainbow is. When you curve it, the curves between points are not as smooth as they should be. Can't find the way to remove curve points.

    And I have like no idea what the connection between this white curve and the black curve (that can be moved with equaliser) is. When I move the slide next to the green vertical line (far left), the curve moves, but I can move it below the visible area using that slide.

    Also there's no indication what the big black arrow on the top means.

     

    I used to change photos to BW using combination of white balance and Saturation in 2.5. Here it's all much more confusing.

    Posted On May 30, 2009 - 11:21 AM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • murech
    Member

    Also there's no indication what the big black arrow on the top means.

    Move mouse cursor around the photo and you will see the black arrow move indicating the color at cursor position.

    Miguel

    Posted On May 30, 2009 - 09:44 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • Tony
    Developer, ACD Systems

    Hi Wotan,

    Vibrance adds more saturation to colors that are less saturated, while saturation adds the same amount of saturation to every pixel in the image.  Well, it's not really that simple, but that's the main difference.  Vibrance will also avoid adding more saturation to skin tones.  If you really crank up the saturation in an image with a person in it, the skin will quite often turn weird colors.  The vibrance slider would be a better choice in that case.

    The white line in the Advanced Color control is a user configurable curve to adjust color.  By raising and lowering that curve in certain color ranges, you are raising and lowering the saturation of those colors.  To remove curve points just drag them above or below the curve control.  It's funny that you think the curve isn't as smooth as it should be.  Another user just posted that we should use this type of curve in our tone curve control!  I guess everybody has their own preferences.

    I've found that the best way to use this tool is to interace directly with the image.  By clicking on the image and dragging up and down you can adjust the saturation of the color you clicked on.  For example, click and drag down on a blue sky in your image to desaturate the sky.  As you move your mouse around on the image, that black arrow you mentioned will move around on the curve control, telling you which color your mouse is hovering over.  After working with the image this way I think you'll rarely touch the curve control.

    We were actually debating whether to leave the curve control in or take it out.  When I was originally developing this tool it was only a curve control, then the sliders and click-dragging on the image were added later on.  We thougt we'd include the curve control in the beta version and let the users decide if it's good or bad.

    The black curve shows what is actually being applied to the image.  It is a combination of the white curve and the slider positions.  The black curve can't be adjusted directly.  This is another thing that we were debating about wheter to leave in or not.  I know this control is a bit complicated and how to use it is not obvious just by looking at it, but once you know how it all works it makes sense.

    You can still do your black and white images in Pro3 the same way you did in Pro 2.5.  That vertical slider to the left of the curve control is an "overall" saturation adjustment.  Moving that slider adjusts the saturation of every color in the image, just like the saturation slider in 2.5 did.

    Hope this helps, and thanks for the feedback!

    Tony.

    Posted On May 30, 2009 - 10:56 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • ClaytonCurtis
    Member

    Wow!  Thanks for the description. (Maybe get that into the help! <grin>)

    I have to say that I didn't have much luck with Vibrance and skin tone ... bumped up other places where the color occurred. Of course, in a portrait shot where skin colors don't appear much any place else but in skin areas, it might work better.

    Posted On May 31, 2009 - 06:37 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • wotan_odyn
    Moderator

    Well, I'd say drop the white curve and keep the sliders+black curve.

    or

    Simply make black curve adjustable (as white is now) and let the sliders jump up and down following it. And vice versa.

    In any case, please don't keep both ways (sliders AND independend adjustable white curve) to move the black curve.

    And please adjust the green slider a bit. It's really weird you can move entire curve bellow or above the visible 'rainbow' part. At the same time when no changes applied to the slider, image is totally desaturated at -50 (making everything down to -100 the same). That ofcourse is not an usability issue but more of a 'feeling' issue. It's just not something one would expect.

    Great work with click-dragging control. I love it! Just drop the black arrow when mouse is NOT hovering over the image. At first I was trying to move it by hand just to see what it does :-) Otherwise click-dragging is a great tool. I only wish I'd notice it before. Didn't read the small tip under the image (but that's for another topic).

    Posted On June 1, 2009 - 08:56 AM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • Marc Sabatella
    Moderator

    BTW, regarding vibrance - I don't know that I've ever taken a picture in whcih I'd like to *increase* saturance or vibrance, but wanting to *decrease* it is pretty common for me.  Either to actually make an B&W, or just reduce a color cast so strong (or multi-colored) that I can't just WB it out (eg, stage lighting), or just for a more subdued effect.  I find that whether intentional or not, reducing vibrance often produces beautiful results - better then simple desaturation.  Sometimes using Advanced Color and playing with the desaturation curve I can get results I like as much, but usually not.

    So,

    a) kudos on a very nice de-vibrancing control!

    b) do be sure, whatever changes you might consider making, to consider the ramifications on negative vibrance!

    Posted On June 1, 2009 - 05:36 PM (5 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • older mann
    Member

    oh me.. oh my...

    where has the "hue, saturation, lightness" box (icon) gone to... it's an essential part of my processing system ..

    Posted On June 25, 2009 - 09:35 AM (4 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • r10k
    Member

    Saturation and lightness are all there... but why do you need hue?  How often does that get used?

    Posted On June 25, 2009 - 04:02 PM (4 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • older mann
    Member

    I found it useful in connection with saturation, to set hue to correct or balance skin color (even if ever so slight)

    Posted On June 25, 2009 - 04:22 PM (4 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • Tony
    Developer, ACD Systems

    Hue, saturation and lightness are still in edit mode.  You can use the advanced color version, or the color balance version.  Hue and lightness have also been added to develop mode and saturation is still there of course.

    Mark, I've actually been playing around with some improvements for de-vibrancing and desaturating images.  In the current beta you lose a lot of contrast when using these controls to remove color.  I've made some improvements that preserve the contrast level of the original image which you'll probably like.

    Tony.

    Posted On June 25, 2009 - 04:51 PM (4 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • r10k
    Member

    I found it useful in connection with saturation, to set hue to correct or balance skin color (even if ever so slight)

    Thanks, just curious :)  Although I know it can be helpful, I've never needed to use it, personally.

     

    Posted On June 26, 2009 - 04:23 AM (4 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

  • Marc Sabatella
    Moderator

    Tony said:

    Mark, I've actually been playing around with some improvements for de-vibrancing and desaturating images.  In the current beta you lose a lot of contrast when using these controls to remove color.  I've made some improvements that preserve the contrast level of the original image which you'll probably like.

    Thanks for the heads-up!  Yes, I've noticed that I often need to hit the curves differently when de-vibrancing an image.  Although usually, the results are still better than with 2.5.

    Posted On July 1, 2009 - 05:23 PM (4 months ago) (Permalink to this post)

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