How to get more speed out of ACDSee

(19 posts)
  • Started by Dand
  • Started on October 9, 2009 - 09:41 AM (1 month ago)
  • Latest reply from Dand (1 month ago)
  • Dand
    Member

    I work with Nikon compressed NEFs (that's their compressed raw format). Browsing a folder with ACDSee takes some time. Or actually, I think it's the cataloging of the folder content that takes time. The little %-counter down in the right corner at the status bar is counting up to 100%. Opening images in Wiew mode and returning some times makes ACDSee restart cataloging although nothing actually has changed. During the cataloging ACDSee some times freezes for a few seconds. Not very long (most of the times) but enough to interrupt the work and for me to get annoyed.

    I have created previews for all NEFs to increase speed of viewing but I feel the cataloging issue takes away any benefit of that.

    I kind of love almost all other aspect of ACDSee Pro. So I really have to get some more speed out of it. But what can I do?

    Any tips on how to configure ACDSee itself?
    Any tips on how to configure the computer.

    And when it comes to hardware... What do you think is the most important RAM or a better processor. I have...

    PROCESSOR: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2,40GHz
    RAM: 2GB

    It's a PC with Windows XP Pro and Service Pack 3.

     

    Posted On October 9, 2009 - 09:41 AM (1 month ago) (Permalink to this post)
  • Sam Dring
    Moderator

    Your system should be fine I reckon.  Couple of points:

    1.  Options>General at the bottom of the box - are you using speed embedded jpeg option?

    2.  Options>File List - have you unticked HQ Thumbs and ticked use embedded?

    Do you have folders containing only files other than compressed NEF (sorry but I don't know how different these are) and do they open quickly?

    I can't see in your post whether this happens on first entering a folder (expected) or every time

    Posted On October 9, 2009 - 10:27 AM (1 month ago) (Permalink to this post)
  • Dand
    Member

    "1. Options>General at the bottom of the box - are you using speed embedded jpeg option?"

    Yes I do.

    "2. Options>File List - have you unticked HQ Thumbs and ticked use embedded?"

    I have unticked both!
    As all files are developed ones the embedded thumb is useless.

    "Do you have folders containing only files other than compressed NEF (sorry but I don't know how different these are) and do they open quickly?"

    I have folders with NEFs and I have folders with JPEGs. The JPEGs give me no problem.

    "I can't see in your post whether this happens on first entering a folder (expected) or every time"

    As I first open the folder the first time and the first cataloging of files are finished there is no problem. I can switch to and back from View mode with speed.

    After I have developed the files the problems start.

    And it's not only the first time. It's all the time and every time... Every switch back and forth between the two modes is delayed by the re-cataloging process (or what ever it is that happens).

    I switch to View mode and back and ACDSee starts to show the counter (in the down right corner - on the status bar). There will be a delay in one or a few seconds until I can open another image (or do anything else - it kind of locks everything). And as far as I can se the more developed files I have in the folder the bigger the problem. With a folder containing only a couple of hundred developed NEF's it gets very annoying...

    I'm just performing a test wit a little larger folder containing up against a thousand NEFs.

     

    Posted On October 9, 2009 - 12:08 PM (1 month ago) (Permalink to this post)
  • Sam Dring
    Moderator

    Every switch back and forth between the two modes is delayed by the re-cataloging process

    I just wonder, given that I have had some problems with repeated re-catting but never during the same session, if this is unique to compressed nef.  Have you done a trial with 'ordinary' nef?

    Posted On October 9, 2009 - 12:26 PM (1 month ago) (Permalink to this post)
  • Dand
    Member

    Nope...

    I'll make a test tough...

    But it's not really an option for me. I use the compressed nef just because it takes so much less space. More images on my 8GB cards and quicker import...

    Posted On October 9, 2009 - 12:39 PM (1 month ago) (Permalink to this post)
  • Sam Dring
    Moderator

    Dand said:

    Nope...

    I'll make a test tough...

    But it's not really an option for me. I use the compressed nef just because it takes so much less space. More images on my 8GB cards and quicker import...

    Certainly I understand that but if you could isolate it to the compression then I could report it to developers

    Posted On October 9, 2009 - 12:43 PM (1 month ago) (Permalink to this post)
  • Marc Sabatella
    Moderator

    I too have never seen this behavior - once it had finished cataloging folder, subsequent visits reuire only a very brief check to see that's nothing's changed.  Of course, if something *has* changed, it stops to take a look.  Annoyingly, running the "Embed Database Information" operation seems to trigger one of these closer looks.

    You're not working in an excluded folder, are you?  That would trigger a re-catalog every time you visited it.  But I think it would also disable Develop mode, so I doubt that's it.

    Posted On October 9, 2009 - 02:55 PM (1 month ago) (Permalink to this post)
  • Dand
    Member

    Marc - you are perfectly right. It's not an excluded folder. and it does not seem to be a full cataloging operation. Maby its just a quick check that is not as quick as I want it to be.

    And it's really noy subsequent vistit. I just switch over to View mode for a second or two and back to Manage mode again... So... ACDSee should know that nothing has changed.

    I'll trye to take a batch of pictures uncompressed as soon as possible...
    And I'll test if "Embed Database Information" seams to have anything to do with it.

    Posted On October 10, 2009 - 04:46 AM (1 month ago) (Permalink to this post)
  • Dand
    Member

    First: You have to excuse my poor English. I do my best - but if that is not enough I urge you to correct me.
    -

    I have made a few tests. It doesn't matter if it is compressed or uncompressed NEFs. What matters is if the NEFs are developed ore not AND if there are generated RAW previews ore not.

    The problem does not occur with JPEG or TIFF images. ACDSee handles them without any annoying re-cataloguing.

    Well, I don't really know if cataloguing is the right word to use. But as you all know ACDSee counter (counts from 0-100%) down at the right end of the status bar. When you first enter a folder ACDSee "catalogue" the files. The counter starts to work its way from 0 to 100%. That of cause steals some resources but when done ACDSee can work with full speed again. It's possible to interrupt the "cataloguing" in manage mode by for example opening an image in view mode. And when you return from view mode to the folder in manage mode the "cataloguing" process should continue from where it was.

    At least that is the case when I tested this on folders with TIFF or JPEG images.

    If you leave the folder in order to visit another or just ending your work in a properly catalogued folder ACDSee don't need to "catalogue" it again. The next time you visit the folder ACDSee just perform a quick comparison of the content to see if there have been any changes. Normally there are no changes and the process is finished in the blink of an eye.

    Now to THE PROBLEM that I have with ACDSee:

    I work with Nikon NEFs (that is the Nikon raw format) and I use the compressed version of NEF format. It has almost the same detail and quality as the uncompressed NEF format (at least I se no difference - so its good enough for me). And it has the advantage of being much smaller in MB. As I said before this give room for more images on my memory cards and faster import when I get home from a mission.

    Marc thought that my problems might have with the compression to do but I have tested both compressed and uncompressed NEFs now and I can't find any difference.

    What my test now have convinced me of is that the problem only occurs with developed NEFs.

    Developed or undeveloped TIFF and JPEG images have a good behaviour and gives me no headache. And undeveloped NEFs behave good too.

    AND NOW to the problem:

    When I open a folder with developed NEFs ACDSee always perform the "cataloguing" procedure. Every time! Or maybe it's just the quick check - but extremely slow...

    And every time I switch to view mode an back to manage mode a new "cataloguing" procedure starts. And its so heavy that CPU activity peaks at 99% and ACDSee freezes for one or a few seconds. The counter actually seam to freeze too. During the freeze I can't scroll in the browser and I cant open an image to view mode (or anything else). When CPU activity drops ACDSee is on the go again. The counter disappears in a snap, I rarely se it count up to a 100%. I guess the check is done very quickly as soon as there are room for it in the CPU.
    If I try to quickly switch between manage mode and view mod back and forth I get stuck every time I return to manage mode. The opening of the image in view mode is no problem. Its when I return to manage mode and the "cataloguing" starts that ACDSee freezes due to the peaking processor.

    I have noticed that if I don't let ACDSee generate any RAW previews in the [developed] folder. The problem with CPU peaking and ACDSee freezing gets much less noticeable. I have to force ACDSee quite hard to get a freeze. But the problem with "cataloguing" every time I enter the folder or return to it from view mode (or for that sake edit or develop mode) is still annoyingly present.

    So the problem occurs when I work with developed NEFs and gets worse if I let ACDSee create previews in the [developed] folder.

    Undeveloped NEF files with no previews work fine. No problems at all. But if I force ACDSee to create RAW previews for these undeveloped NEFs the problem starts. The slow and tiresome repeated re-cataloguing of the folder starts and CPU activity peak and ACDSee freezes...

    TIFF and JPEGs work fine too - even if they are developed. But, if I have got it right, the develop of TIFF and JPEG aren't really a develop. It's actually a form of edit. The original is moved and stored in the [Originals] folder. The one in the main folder is a saved copy with the develop settings applied to it. So it's quite different from how the NEFs are handeled.

    With NEFs we have the XMP files and the previews that seam to mess things up.

    And I guess I have to ad: My NEFs are from Nikon D200.

    And finally: I unchecked the "Display embed database information reminder" option with no change in the behaviour of the problem.

    Now I don't know what to do.
    That's about where I stand now - knowing a little bit more but still not knowing anything that solves the issue.

     

    Posted On October 10, 2009 - 01:24 PM (1 month ago) (Permalink to this post)
  • Marc Sabatella
    Moderator

    Sorry, I don't what what to suggest except to contact Support (link at top left of this page).  I do what you describe often and don't see the behavior you describe as a result, but I shoot Pentax, not Nikon.  I wonder if you can give a specific series of steps to follow, and see if another Nikon shooter can duplicate what you are seeing?

    Posted On October 13, 2009 - 12:34 AM (1 month ago) (Permalink to this post)
  • Dand
    Member

    Hm... Well, I will absolutely get in contact with support. No doubt. But I will also start a new thread devoted to investigate if I'm alone or if more people suffer from this behaviour. I feel that this tread is more of a way to investigate the specific problem that I have.

    The new thread: http://community.acdsee.com/forums/topic/nikon-shooters-problem-with-the-nikon-nef-format

    I made a new test: I had three NEFs from a Nikon D3X (I shoot D200). So I copied them and then I copied the copies till I had a hundred of them in the folder. And I had the same behaviour with them as with my D200 NEFs.

    In a second test I looked upp a folder containing old RAW (RAF) files from a Fuji Finpix S2-Pro. They gave me no trouble at all. Quick and easy browsing and viewing without any interrupting re-cataloguing. Perfect...

     

    Posted On October 13, 2009 - 02:45 PM (1 month ago) (Permalink to this post)
  • Philip Weir
    Member

    I use .nef files all the time and do not seem to be having the problem that you are experiencing. One question though is - what are compressed nef files? I use nefs straight out of the camera and my camera (D80) has no setting, that I know of, to compress the nefs. If your nefs are compressed is it possible that, every time ACDP visits your folder, it has to uncompress the nefs before doing anything else? Just a thought.

    Posted On October 13, 2009 - 11:24 PM (1 month ago) (Permalink to this post)
  • QuBe
    Focus Group

    Don't even think of leaving a folder before it gets to 100% of thumbnail generation.   If you do, when you return, it goes right back to work making thumbs.
    I've noticed that even after the little indicator reaches 100%, my drive will keep crunching for a bit. So, I always wait about 5 to 10 seconds after ACDSee is done processing thumbs before I move on.

    Could be, especially with the volume of data you're processing in one folder, ACDSee needs more time to finish background processing. (especially if they are compressed RAWs)

    QuBe.

    Posted On October 14, 2009 - 12:16 AM (1 month ago) (Permalink to this post)
  • Dand
    Member

    To Philip Weir:

    I'm sure you have them too. You can choose it in the menus of your camera. Compressed or not compressed NEF. It's lossless compression and at least I can't se any different in the resulting images. I'm sure there are differences... It must be. But they are very minor indeed.

    But when it comes to my specific problem it doesn't matter if I use compressed or uncompressed NEFs. I've tested both.

    To QuBe:

    I don't think of that.
    First time I open a folder I let ACDSee make a full cataloguing of and let it create the thumbs.
    I make a batch develop of all the files and let ACDSee catalogue and create thumbs again.

    But when that is done ACDSee should not do it every time I visit the folder again. It should just make a quick check. Usually (with developed or undeveloped RAF, TIFF or JPEG and with undeveloped NEF) this is done in a blink of an eye. But with a folder full of developed NEFs ACDSee seam to start a full cataloguing procedure...

    I'm sure you would get crazy if you had to wait for ACDSee to fully re-cataloguing and create thumbs for the whole folder after every quick switch to full screen view you do while browsing through a folder of images. The reason we all like ACDSee is the speed and the workflow it offers (when this software works properly).

    And as I just told Philip Weir: I've tested with both compressed and uncompressed NEFs and there I's no difference.

    Just for the record:

    I've tested NEFs from D70, from two different D200 and a D3X. They all cause this eternal re-cataloguing. And I've tested both compressed and uncompressed NEF files.

    I've installed ACDSee Pro 3 on both my home computer and on my note book. And there is no difference.

    I've also tested with raw files from a Fuji Finepix S2-Pro. And ACDSee handles THEM ok.

    And further more: Undeveloped NEFs are OK. There are no re-cataloguing issue with them. But if I have a folder full of developed NEFs this becomes a major problem.

    No problem wit developed RAFs (Fuji). No problem with image files like TIFF and JPEG...

    And I've tested in ACDSee Pro 2.5 too. In 2.5 there is no problem with re-cataloguing at all. So it's a new phenomena in ADCSee Pro 3.

    It's a real pity... I really like Pro 3. If it was not for this behaviour with developed NEFs it would be the answer for almost all my prayers.

     

    Posted On October 14, 2009 - 02:27 PM (1 month ago) (Permalink to this post)
  • QuBe
    Focus Group

    Dand said:

    To QuBe:

    I don't think of that.
    First time I open a folder I let ACDSee make a full cataloguing of and let it create the thumbs.
    I make a batch develop of all the files and let ACDSee catalogue and create thumbs again.

    But when that is done ACDSee should not do it every time I visit the folder again. It should just make a quick check. Usually (with developed or undeveloped RAF, TIFF or JPEG and with undeveloped NEF) this is done in a blink of an eye. But with a folder full of developed NEFs ACDSee seam to start a full cataloguing procedure...

     

    In Pro 3.0, I did a test on a folder of NEFs from a D3...about half a dozen files. Developed them with ACDSee's RAW processor.

    I don't get that re-cataloging problem you mention. When I go to other folders and come back to the one with the processed NEF's, it doesn't regenerate thumbs or re-catalog. It opens badda-bing like other folders. Same if I toggle between thumbs and full image view...same if I close ACDSee and restart a new session. No problemos.

    So, since it isn't a database issue (you mention installing it on other computers and having the same issue), then it sounds it's a setting in ACDSee.
    I pretty heavily customize ACDsee 2.5 and 3.0 for my workflow...takes me about an hour after install. Could be I have some option set differently.
    At least you know ACDSee 2.5 and 3.0 can have a folder of developed NEFs without doing the re-cataloging. Just have to track down why it's doing it on your system.

    QuBe.

    Posted On October 14, 2009 - 05:34 PM (1 month ago) (Permalink to this post)
  • QuBe
    Focus Group

    Followed your procedure and did a batch process of the NEF's and everything is still okay - no re-cataloging or regenerating of thumbs in any of the circumtances mentioned in my previous post.
    So it must be a setting somewhere.

    QuBe.

    Posted On October 14, 2009 - 06:03 PM (1 month ago) (Permalink to this post)
  • Dand
    Member

     

    Thanks QuBe - I'm grateful for your interest and the time you spent testing on your system.

    But, I'm not sure 6 NEFs is enough to really notice the behavior. My folders contain a minimum of a hundred developed NEFs.

     

    It might be a setting. But I haven't found which. And the settings differ on the two computers.

     

    Hope to get a response from the ACDSee support team soon.

     

    It might be the fact that I have a Swedish Windows XP. I've thrown out a question on a Swedish Nikon forum to se if there are any ACDSee users there and if they have noticed this behavior.

    Posted On October 15, 2009 - 10:18 AM (1 month ago) (Permalink to this post)
  • QuBe
    Focus Group

    Dand said:

    Thanks QuBe - I'm grateful for your interest and the time you spent testing on your system. But, I'm not sure 6 NEFs is enough to really notice the behavior. My folders contain a minimum of a hundred developed NEFs.

     

    A hundred NEFs?
    Hmm...no prob. Order me Nikon from Vistek.ca and I'll pick it up and do further testing. I think a D700 should do fine......better make it a D3x just to be safe.  

     

    Hope to get a response from the ACDSee support team soon.

    It might be the fact that I have a Swedish Windows XP. I've thrown out a question on a Swedish Nikon forum to se if there are any ACDSee users there and if they have noticed this behavior.

     

    Yep, might be time for a support ticket. 

    Lycka till.

    QuBe. 

     

    Posted On October 15, 2009 - 10:13 PM (1 month ago) (Permalink to this post)
  • Dand
    Member

    QuBe said:

    Yep, might be time for a support ticket. 

    Lycka till.

    QuBe. 

     

    Tack!

    Posted On October 16, 2009 - 02:46 AM (1 month ago) (Permalink to this post)

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